Matt Jones

Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with Matt Jones. Matt is the Director/Principal Consultant of Advanced Safety,  and, radio host of 'Health and Safety Unplugged' and 'Business Leaders New Zealand'. During the conversation Matt discusses his career, how he got into safety and how he got into radio.

You are not going to want to miss this one.

Thanks to Safety FM+  and HOP University for sponsoring this episode of The Jay Allen Show.

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[00:00:07] spk_0: Well hello and welcome to another glorious episode of the J ALLen show. I hope everything is good and grand inside of your neck of the woods And everything is going the way that you want inside of this new world of ours of 2021. So let's get to it. Let's start talking about the things that are going on and going around. But I have to tell you as we get started today, I am so excited that I have the opportunity to speak with Matt Jones. He is the founding director of advanced safety coaching executives to champions of health and safety. I have to tell you, I am familiar with Matt jones work and we talk about his work, what he's doing down in new Zealand and how everything has come about until this point inside of his career. We also go and take some deep dives on how he's even influence our little network right here of safety FM. So without much further ado, let's get it rolling and bowling and let's take a listen to what matt jones has to say on this episode of the J allen

[00:01:18] spk_1: joe

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[00:01:21] spk_1: now on safety FM

[00:01:23] spk_0: dot Good morning. Or should I say good afternoon? I'm not even sure. Hey jay, it's bright and early here today, so it's Wednesday going, okay, so you're definitely into the future. So number one, thanks for doing this. Because I have to tell you if we don't start off with anything besides when do you sleep? I don't even know what should be the correct question. Start off with. It's a great question. J I've got five kids at home as well, so very young ages. I'm probably averaging about four or five hours sleep per day at the moment. Oh, I don't even know if you can consider that really sleeping at this particular point. I have to tell you, I, I go online and I see more things that you're either doing or creating or generating and there has to be a secret to what you're doing. It either is a victim board a map. There's something that you're doing that. It's just sticking out. Well, tell me the secret is an interesting question. I think the fuel is a lot of caffeine for sure I guess. Yeah. Look, there is a bit of a purpose. There is a bit of a mission. Um, ultimately it's about driving community. I'm a big believer that the solutions are within a broad community and it's just trying to bring good people together. Hence why I mean, I'm wrapped to be on, on the show and to be able to tell you my story. So well I have to, I have to, I have to tell you. It's been it's been a long time because we had a conversation about, about this a long time ago and it just didn't because I could never get it to work out. And the funny part is that I sit back and I don't know if you've ever heard me say this or if you, if you've even caught a glimmer of this, But the only person that I could find doing podcasting in radio when I first started with this was you and you were definitely in a totally different world than I was. Um, and I know that it's kind of their community, but still I was like, you were the only one that was doing it. So I look at it and I go, hey, you know, if it wouldn't have been for some of the ideas that you had already started, probably safety FM wouldn't be what it is today, wow, that really means something Frankie J. That's incredible to, to know that. So there you go, clearly the mission is working. Um, uh, yeah, it kind of, it just happened organically, particularly the radio show, piece of the puzzle. I had a good friend of mine who is an amazing um, individual who helps people unclear blocks. So getting into running my own business inevitably, that highlighted some issues I had around receiving money. I was doing a lot of good work, but like I was having a real challenge about actually asking for payback, which isn't great when you're running your own business. So she helped, she helped me to understand that and overcome that. And then you turned out she has her own radio show on a local local radio station here in new Zealand. And the opportunity came along and I thought, well, you know what, let's do it. So yeah, it's been all go ever since. So let's talk about that, let's kind of really backtrack for a moment. So before you even get in to start doing your own business, how does this come about you? At what point do you wake up one morning, or is it over several mornings ago? Well, I think safety is the way to do it, and because it's not difficult enough, let's do my own business at the same time. Dot how did that happen? I think, look, I've like many of us have worked for, for many different companies, very many different people over the years. And um when I paused to reflect on it, um I always, for one reason I never ended up in a wee bit of conflict and it was often because I've got a really strong sense of purpose and values, right? So if I ever see things that I don't feel quite right, I'm very, uh, I don't pull the punches. You know, I'll let them know you're not shot. You're not sure you're trying to be, you're trying to put in the kind way you're not, uh, inevitably ruffles feathers. You know, you may get a good response initially. It's like, well, thank you for your feedback map will take that on board and we'll work with it. But, you know, you've ruffled feathers and basically your days are numbered. So, um, so when you, when you look at it, did you kind of count that exactly? Because at the end of the day, these are the people when you're working inside of an employee employer environment. These are the people that are essentially signing your paycheck to some extent. So does that where some of the drive came from? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, so I guess in the role of health and safety you would assume, hey, look, here's an issue, Here's some solution or possible solutions. You would assume that that's kind of part of you are all right, and that's what you're there to do. But if you're doing it, if you're doing it well, and if you come in with a good degree of confidence that that can then be perceived as a threat to those who have become comfortable or do not necessarily understand the benefits of change. And so I guess that was possibly the, the seed that led me toward. Okay, now it's time to give this a crack and get into my own business. Um, the slightly longer version of the story is I was working for a state owned enterprise, so it's a big employer here in New Zealand for a couple years as a national Health and Safety Manager. Um, I felt that my time there was done, so I moved on, joined up with an old colleague of mine who had a, what I considered to be a functioning business. And within a couple of weeks it became apparent that there was no work. So I'd left a really good job, well paid, good conditions, uh, to find myself unemployed. So the choice then was okay, Do I go back to employment, find something else? Or do I take this as the chance and the opportunity to really make an impact? So what drove you to the safety field? How did you end up getting to the portion where you said, hey, I want to get into safety because there's not a lot of people that I speak with, they wake up and go, oh yeah, safety is the way to go. I mean it's, it's starting to happen now, but for people that are, you have been around for a while, it's like, well I kind of fell into it or some variation of the totally, I'm the same. I was beginning to wonder if it was a new Zealand thing, but clearly it's an international approach to the world of health and safety. Yeah, look, I fell into it too. I think I've only possibly met two individuals in the last recent times that I've actually moved into health and safety as a career choice. So the back story is for many years I was in hospitality, I got a degree in philosophy and politics, extremely useful degree. Back in the day turns out it wasn't gonna pay the bills. So I've worked in bars, worked in restaurants, all sorts. I originally come from the UK and moved over to New Zealand for initially 12 months, just for a bit of a gap year, just for a bit of experience and 16, 17 years later I'm still here, it's a great place. Uh, so I met my, my wife at that time, I was working as a seal swim tour guide. So I was working in the ocean and open water, taking people out into the water to experience that time with seals. Uh, we realized that that wasn't gonna pay the bills, particularly with the arrival of our firstborn. So we moved to the big city. Um, and at that time I approached a trade union, um they were based in the world of hospitality, fast food, hotels, retail. I felt that there was a bit of a synergy there. Um, I guess that probably tells you a lot about me is that I saw issues in the industry that had been part of and I felt that I had a chance to perhaps help make some improvements for others. Um, two and a bit years of battle conflict, man, it was, it was pretty brutal. Um pretty thankless task. I had some winds, but by the end of it I was burnt out by then we had moved to Christchurch, which for some of your listeners may recall it's f quake city. This is the epicenter of those amazing or traumatic events that took place here in, in New Zealand. And as it was at that stage, I had lost lots of members and their their work workplaces had fallen over. I went through lots of redundancy meetings with lots of lots of my members and I was burnt out. Ready for a change. Had a knock on the door from a construction business owner who was having real trouble getting over the health and safety paperwork hurdles had back loads of work, but they just couldn't master the health and safety component and they were going to lose a lot of work. So I jumped at the chance and got involved in health and safety. The lessons I've learned in the trade union space. Um, distilling complex legal jargon into everyday language came natural within 12 months they were up for national Health and Safety awards. Um and suddenly I was being shoulder tap left, right and center and I've been in health and safety ever since. So let's, let's go down that for just a brief moment because I think that's where it gets very, very interesting. So you go from the hospitality business into this because now all of a sudden you're seeing that there's work. Do you think that part of your hospitality degree helps you to get where you're at currently? Because you understood relationship? Absolutely. Um yeah. The ability to refine your messaging in the way in which you speak with your clientele with the people that walk through the door, you never know who's going to walk through the door next right? So having that ability to have a b a super relaxed or super formal, depending on the situation, can really open doors and enable you to get some of the key messaging through, whichever wise may not be what people want to hear. So, yeah, I'm so grateful for that experience. Um as my kids get older, I'm really keen for them to just explore the world and uh not go down the traditional career path straight away, taste things, you know, you get used to what the world is like. Learn those soft skills long before getting into the trappings of careers and professionals. So after you got into the trappings of career professionals, I mean, of course it's changed has changed a little bit, of course. But what you're doing at what at what point do you say? Okay, The friend approaches, you says radio and you say yes, let's do it. Let's talk about the subject matter because there is no subject matter that you won't touch on your show, at least when it comes related to the world of safety. So at what point are you already feeling confident enough that you can have these discussions on the air is a great question. Um, it's Yeah, you're right. It's it's very much putting your head on a block because when you have a guest speakers, subject matter experts, Yeah. You're dealing with topics that are pretty hot off the press often. Currently, the moment we've got some really significant court cases that are just starting to go through the process of the court have to be very careful what we say, because at the moment a lot of it is still up for debate. Um I guess maybe it's a little bit of a cavalier approach, but also um I stick to what I know and so if there are times where it's getting a little bit gray and a little bit unset and I'll just simply call it and say, hey look, um I only know what I know and let's kind of steer the conversation into those, those safer realms. Um I guess the other pieces um maybe just being open and honest is enough, you know, like uh picking on or peeling back the the information that your your guests have or or the topic you're discussing is is content in itself, you know, So yeah, it's just just knowing your boundaries and having fun. Well, I mean there's been a couple of times on your show that you've probably played translator as well, where you're translating, where the people are saying you're kind of giving us the the the simpler version. And I mean that in a good way that, you know, average joe like me can understand it. Yeah, absolutely. I guess that's the most important thing, Right? And it's the same with your show is trying to provide as much value as possible to your listeners. Otherwise, what are we here for over than, you know, bit of hot air and making us feel good about ourselves. That's that's not really the mission. So Well, I look at it this way. I wanted to be in a room locked up talking to myself. I just don't want with a whole bunch of pads on the wall that you know there being some orderly is to watch me. So I figured this would be the better way around it. Good time to spend it, right? Yeah. So let me ask the question. So you do this. But the first time that you decided to go on the air, you're going on to the radio, how many how many years are you already in the in the business? But your that you feel because there is a level of confidence that you have to have at that moment where you're okay, we're doing this because it could go great or it could go terribly wrong and sometimes it's just a combination of both and we just kind of work our way through it. Yeah. So how does it go? I mean and what I mean, like what are we talking a couple of years in three years in 5 20 I mean just joking 20 portion, but you know what I mean? Yeah, I think probably we're looking at about 5.5, 6 years in the health and safety space. Um and then a couple of years on top of that of the union work with the union job, there was a lot of public speaking, an awful lot of time in front of the media, in front of the camera. So I learned the hard way how to deliver messaging and to, you know, hopefully I do ok at public speaking. Um But yeah, I guess in the world of health and safety, that's still pretty early days, you know, like there's just so much to know. Um but again, it's just knowing my my lane, so for me I'm a generalist practitioner right? So I don't pretend to be an expert in hazardous substance management or whatever it might be, but I know enough perhaps to be dangerous, you know? And so um there's a bit of a bit of confidence there, some may interpret that is arrogance, but I don't think it is because it's coming from the right space. I'm doing it because I just want to get that message out well and then this is where it gets pretty interesting because you're wanting to get the message out, you start getting messaging out and then you're already a business owner, but you start doing what we would call here in the U. S. Market, a franchise bomb where you're kind of opening your teaching people how to do stuff go out there and kind of do in the name of how do you come up with this? How do you go? This is what I want to do, especially if he is, let's be realistic, you're kind of far from the rest of the world. So you decided to do this and open it up pretty largely to the whole planet. So how does this idea come about? And you go, I'm just sitting here, something new to come up with? Yeah, gosh, intuition. Um uh yeah, I mean it's really not much more than uh interestingly. Um very recently, I I dedicate some of my time for free. I go to the local college and I speak to business management students, they're part of their papers, there's a health and safety paper as part of their training. And so I go in and they're expecting, you know, the mundane and boring, presentation word, verbatim presentation slides, the whole shebang. But I come in with no slides and I just talked to them honestly, and in uh for about 60 minutes, and I always get great feedback from them now. What's happened in recent times is one of those students has approached me and said, hey look, I've swapped my HR business roadmap, I'm now getting into health and safety because of your talk. It was amazing, and I feel so inspired by it. I'm now doing a diploma in Health and Safety and I need to get some time on the ground. What do you think? So, her and I looking at bringing her in as an intern. Amazing. But one of the things that came about during our first initial conversation was the same question, where's where's the road map? Where is this grand plan that you clearly are working by? And I'm just like, um this is kind of freak you out, but I've never really stopped to write it down. Um It all just comes perhaps a little bit on impulse but it kind of fits two or three categories, right? So one clearly that I've got the business to think of, but I'm all about long term goals, so my poor wife is often screaming at me saying where's the return for this time and effort you're putting in Mr jones, and I'm just like it'll come, it'll come, it's starting to, you know the business is really finding its feet. Now, we've got some amazing clients, I'm working with, some incredible business leaders, mentoring and cheering one on one, which is epic. But yeah, it is possibly a floor of mine that I haven't paused to actually really refine exactly what is happening and what I'm doing uh perhaps watch this space because I think this year could be the year where I really um crystallized those visions and really start to to put it all together. What you've mentioned, the O. J. Is that I truly believe that this is a global community now, right? The covid pandemic has really forced us into this new era where we can have these conversations um electronically and it feels like, I mean I'm in your room and like I'm just sitting there in your studio just chilling and it's great. Um And one of the big hairy audacious girls I've got is being able to pull off global international events for health and safety people getting together um chewing the fat with open ended conversations and then having a blast, you know having amazing parties and and just celebrating the fact that we're out there doing what we do um and building on that community. Mhm. But matt, let's talk about this for a moment and I'm not trying to blow smoke as you're sitting here, but you have to acknowledge to an extent that there are people that look your direction and art imitating your model. They are copying what you're doing out there. I mean, let's be realistic, once I saw you come up with that, I had not seen anybody else doing it. And all of a sudden not to name names, but I did see about two or three people organizations company forming whatever you want to call it, doing almost the exact replica in what there was one in particular that you change something and what about a week or two later they changed to the exact same thing and I was like, hold on, what's So at one point I thought that might have been involved, but then I was able to do, you know, enough searching online to figure out, oh no, they're just they're just watching exactly what he's doing. So do you realize that people are doing that? Yeah, I mean, don't don't be shy and don't be humble. I mean, I'm the ones paying it. You can say yes or no. Yeah, I'm nodding um jay, you're right and I'd be a fool not to be aware of it. I guess. Like, I mean, uh let's let's talk buddy, corporate speak. Right? So on the macro uh is progress great, you know, because it means that what I'm doing is clearly working is resonating with people and they're like, okay, if this is working for, you know, matt jones in the middle of nowhere, down the most seven pacific space you can find, and it's working for him, then let's give it a go awesome because it means that the message is getting to a much broader audience than I ever could on the, on the micro level at the local level. Look, I mean, uh yes, it's a bit of a compliment. It does frustrate me sometimes if I'm open and honest, but again, if it means that people that I may not have reached uh in one way or another, getting involved in health and safety community, then that's fine. And it also means that, um, But one of the reasons why advanced safety has been around since 2016. So I launched the business. Then at the same time, I launched a health and safety professional group online and the new Zealand Health and safety professionals. Initially, it was on linkedin, uh, within the first few months we had a couple 100 members, which new Zealand's got a relatively small pool of health and safety professionals. So for me that was like, okay, clearly onto something here. A couple of years later, we launched a Facebook group between the two groups. Now we've got over 2000 members, it's amazing. Um Congratulations, thank you. And I guess the instinct was we're missing something. We've got professional development training sessions, we've got these formal meetings that we can be part of through our professional bodies, which is great. But my frustration was that we were missing an opportunity to simply talk and explore what's working what's not and how we can overcome them as a group. Um, conversations were limited to the first five minutes in the last five minutes of those, those events where people were quickly just rushing back to their workplace. So that's one of the reasons why I set up that group. Um, but it was seen as a bit of a challenge. I've had some interesting conversations with people down corridors and you know, in between events. And you know, some of it hasn't been particularly pretty, but the end result is that those organizations have finally recognized that they were missing a piece and are now making moves to try and engage people that were otherwise completely another really disengaged and weren't even aware that those groups exist. So I take it on the Chin, I think it's a positive thing, but there is part of me, it's like, okay, cool. So they're getting all the recognition, but it was a little of me doing all the hard yards. Well, you know, my skin is thick and well your your way to kind because I'm gonna tell you, I see stuff like that and it drives me crazy. And here's the thing, I don't know, it doesn't bother me to a fullest extent if people are mimicking because it's going to happen, but at least acknowledge, I mean acknowledge that, hey, this is where I got it from. I mean because let's be, let's be real, you can come up with the concept and the way that it sometimes works, somebody can do something slightly better because they're already kind of imitating what you're doing and just happens across the board, but at least acknowledge that you did it because you're doing all this hard work. You're the one that's coming up with the concept and they're coming in, taking a look at what you're doing and going, it's the same thing and that's just me going off nothing that you said. So I want to make sure these were, my opinion is not the ones that I'm the one, you know, go over your thing because I have no problem playing the bad guy. So but it's I mean it's just it's just interesting it's just interesting on how it works because I see you doing a lot of hard work. So and I see that when you open up the groups and you talk about it and I've seen when when you're doing the the offering online and I think it's so important because you're pouring your heart inside of there and you're pouring your knowledge inside of there. And it's always you know, it's always the weird part that you did mention earlier about you know monetizing it because what you put on value on knowledge and hard and everything else that you're putting in there. So I understand I understand that but you're going out there and you're doing this for them in return people to you know attempt to monetize what you're doing on their own. Yeah. Yeah. Look and I've had good friends, advisers, mentors turning to me and going, dude like you need to, you need to switch on the monetization of this because you're just giving away so much when, when I set up the business. Um, uh, in all honesty right. I had no business experience. I had been a business partner in the health and safety consultancy a few years ago but that was a barely functioning business. That to be honest, it was a bit of a cowboy operation unfortunately. I'm not sure if it's the same in the States, but there's, there's, there's still many health and safety big, all our consultant, you know, like running around pretending to be like these people. And it is unfortunate. It took me a little while I realized in the early stages that that was the case. But it took me a while to build up the confidence to say enough and, and to move on, but gosh, what was going? Uh, yeah, so the monetization, So when I set up advanced safety, um, I was looking to find some guidance, some uh, something that resonated with me that enabled me to perhaps piggyback and copy off of them. I don't know if you, you're the audience are aware of the likes of Gary Vaynerchuk and um, tom Bill you and others who they kind of like the real cutting edge entrepreneurial business people that you see on your Gary Gary V's kind of well known on social doesn't matter what. So if you're on, he's popped in around there some way, shape or form, you can't escape it, right? Um, but what I like about him in particular, yes, he's quite a divisive character, right? You either love him or you absolutely hate this guy, but what resonated with me was the idea that, look, give away your most valuable stuff. It seems counterintuitive, but you'll be one of the few that are prepared to do it and if you do that, you will, you will win regardless of what happens. Um And so I had a long chat with my wife about this and I was like, look, this is what we're playing a really long game here. Um I will be able to provide and ensure we get food on the table, but um I'm uh I'm playing a long game in terms of I really wanna one inspire change based on what you're saying to me, j it sounds like that's well and truly happening, which is, you know, gosh, like this is one of those rare moments where I get some feedback, I'll be honest, like I don't get to have these conversations very often, so it's awesome to hear it. Um and secondly, I know that one day when I look back, I know that I have made an impact in the industry that I love, but also the industry that frustrates the hell out of me. Yeah, this is jay allen show.

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[00:27:13] spk_0: Okay. Have you ever wanted to hear what's going on around in the world of safety and you're not able to do so? Have you ever wanted to take a listen to what exactly is going around in the world of safety? What if we call that thing around the safety pie? We told you month over month what is happening in the mix? Would you care to know what would it be worth to you now? Here's the fun part besides that, you can find out exactly what's going on inside of the world of safety. There's also other information available, their staff that you can start using as early as today. How about you? Give us a look, go to our website safety FM plus dot com. That safety FM plus dot com to find out what exactly is going on inside of the world of safety, around the world of safety and inside of the world of safety. And don't forget to tell them J Allen center, I'll see you on the other side. You're joined the revolution and we are back on the J ALLen show on safety. FM. So, have you, have you noticed over this last little bit? Of course, Covid being the thing that it has for a little over a year at this particular point, what kind of impact did it have on you, meaning? On how you change the process for the business? Not necessarily the business itself. Well, I know what you had planned to, what end up you ended up doing during that time. Yeah, it actually sped up a few things that I had on the back burner um, on the ground level. Unfortunately I I lost a couple of my stuff. So at that stage I had two full time on this, one was on maternity leave and she was due to return any day. Um We were fortunate initially we had some uh subsidy given to us by the new Zealand government to assist small businesses surviving the early stages of the lockdown. Mhm. But inevitably work dried up and reality crashed in, held on to them for as long as I could possibly a bit too long. But the decision was made eventually to let them go during that lockdown period. So here in New Zealand we were locked down for about six weeks. We were the government. I mean, gosh, if there was ever an example of good planning and health safety response um and and the positive outcomes of that, the new Zealand government response to the covid pandemic was phenomenal. I'm sure to be many studies written about that in time to come. But yeah, for me, during that lockdown period work dried up. I was at home with five kids. I was fortunate that I've got support from some legal advisers who were able to um uh argue that I was a a an essential service provider which enabled me to get a container delivered on my driveway. So I'm still in the container. Actually, this is a temporary office space that I have in my driveway. Oh, that's pretty cool. I would have never known if you wouldn't have told me what I can see. Just looks like a standard office. Yes, it's kind of like a six by Eight. It's quite very closely. Uh Yes, so instead of just kind of, okay, well, you know, we're in lockdown on take time out and try and enjoy my time here. Instead, I got really busy. Um I went to live interviews, so the podcasts and the radio show switched very quickly to online live broadcasts, inviting as many subject matter experts as I could get my hands on to provide as much information out to the professional groups that I'm a part of and to the wider community as efficiently as I possibly could. And then online learning was always something that I've been dabbling with, but this really kind of put the fuel to the fire. So since then built a whole suite of various online learning tools for entry level, newbie health and safety people all the way up to the seasoned professionals. Um It's basically given me um the reason to really build another um uh column or another piece to the advanced safety puzzle. Um and then in general, a little bit less travel. Um, and more time on conference calls, which is good and bad. Um uh, oh, you're too kind, good and bad. It's most, I mean I like talking to people, but you know, being stuck in a conference call to three times a day. Not a, not a hug