EP 632 - Taylor Hewlett and Michael Bathgate

00:03

This is it. This show is brought to you by safety FM. Okay, we are broadcasting live from Energy Safety Canada in Banff. And like we have done a couple of times here, directly off the stage, directly off the stage.

S1
Speaker 1
00:19
Taylor and Michael, you're here. And titling is so important. Wording is so important. I have to know right off the bat, people don't suck.

S1
Speaker 1
00:29
Looking at hop through a leadership lens, How did you come up with the title?

S2
Speaker 2
00:34
It was for quite a journey and then we were just talking about people so much and that's our belief. And it was 1 random day that I was like, hey people don't suck. And then we just know it's a great hook because every time we talk about it it's always like but they do

S1
Speaker 1
00:52
so let me ask you can you pull the microphone up just a little bit a little bit higher this way we can get you a little bit clear and now let me let me ask you a question here Can you give a brief overview of what the speech was because there are going to be some people listening that were not here of course just to get kind of just a little bit of the flavouring and then we'll go into some details.

S3
Speaker 3
01:10
The bigger flavouring is we talked a little bit about human operationalized performance through like a leadership lens. So the big thing that we talk about is obviously labels and labeling bias. The story that we tell is about somebody who was thought to have seen to have a performance issue, but after you really look at it, it was more of just an emotional view that somebody had towards this person.

S3
Speaker 3
01:36
So we really just try to share a story about checking emotion and recognizing whether it's actually factual or it's just coming from an emotional place.

S1
Speaker 1
01:46
Diller, what do you think there?

S2
Speaker 2
01:47
And then we also layer in the human performance concepts. So the number 1, if people don't, people make mistakes. And if you tie that into how we're approaching individuals within our organization, it's an attitude that we have to really take and own before we make any decisions within our organizations.

S1
Speaker 1
02:07
So let me just ask the strange question. Is this the first time that you guys are presented at a conference?

S2
Speaker 2
02:12
Yep. Yes.

S1
Speaker 1
02:14
Okay. So I'm not blowing smoke, so let's talk here. You guys had a line waiting for people to talk to you post-event in regards of the presentation that you did. Now let's not talk about ego, because that's easy to get into, but people really wanted to know what you guys were talking about.

S1
Speaker 1
02:32
So general consensus, apparently you're hitting the market right with this information. So when you set back and started developing this, what was the standpoint of what you were trying to accomplish? And whoever wants to take it.

S3
Speaker 3
02:44
I like, I can talk to that sure. So like when we sat back and developed it, we didn't actually know we were developing it. What we really focused on was leadership and leadership development, and in that, it's just like we believe in developing people.

S3
Speaker 3
02:58
So through our journey, all we've really focused on is trying to develop people and then as we've shared our stories with others we we shared it with our our she group so like our safety team and they were like this is human performance and we're like oh tell us more so they they really helped us connect the dots between like what we were doing and how it aligns with human performance.

S1
Speaker 1
03:21
So when you started looking at this and Taylor when you started looking at it and you realized that it was aligning with human performance what was the general conception? Did you think that you had hit something that you didn't realize that it was there or how did it come about?

S2
Speaker 2
03:33
Yeah, for sure. As we started dealing with problems within our teams, Mike and I working together, we started using different leadership concepts and spending time with the leaders within our team to teach it to them. And then it hit us 1 day, it was like we need to start documenting this, we need to start tracking all the work we're doing.

S2
Speaker 2
03:53
And as we started tracking the work we're doing, we had a 1 note with 8 or 10 items and it blew up. I mean, because once you start in opening up conversation within your organization, it blows up and it starts in changing that, hey, embracing that red, looking at the problems and it develops that internally of each person within the team of like we're comfortable with the fact there's problems and we're comfortable the fact that we're just going to be constantly dealing with the problems. That's why we believe we have a job is to be working on those problems.

S1
Speaker 1
04:24
But as you take a look at this, I mean, whoever wants to answer, you all of a sudden start developing this, you start talking about it, you do this on a 1 note and all of a sudden it blows up that way, do you know that you hit the correct nerve within the organization and did you think that it was just the organization or did you think it was going to go as wide as it has so far? Because we set it up just kind of at a long table a few nights ago, and you guys were talking, and I was like, how are you talking about this stuff that people that are in their 50s and their 60s are normally talking about? And you guys are relatively young compared to most people that are talking about leadership.

S3
Speaker 3
04:59
So, Like me and Taylor have a big passion of leadership. We spend a ton of time reading books researching it and like We also teach this but like we believe leadership is a learned skill a lot of people say leadership is a boring skill But we think it's like if you were exposed to leadership at a young age Maybe on a sports team parents held a leadership position Whatever that may be so like for us we had this opportunity to take all this knowledge that we had and then when we started working together it was like we can put this in the practice and see what it does because as you say like an academic they talk and they have all these things but it's like we were able to collectively take the stuff that we've read talk about it to each other of how we interpreted it and then go to work hopefully that answers

S1
Speaker 1
05:44
the question I know it no it does answer the question but I look at it too from the standpoint of on the way that you're able to bring this up, talk about it and move forward with the information. And I'm not going to pick on academics because technically I have to say that I'm part of that category. But I look at it and I go the way that you've been able to develop this from the ground up If I can say it that way and I know she said hey Keep in mind of people doing sporting events and moving forward in regards starting it from from a from a younger age But there's more than just that and reading books.

S1
Speaker 1
06:17
I mean, you guys must have sat there and had a pretty, pretty descriptive discussion in regards to how this is going to move. At least, I mean, I'm making some assume some assumption to.

S2
Speaker 2
06:26
In the last, I'd say 3 to 4 years, Mike and I have been collaborating like in great detail. But prior to that it's just a true belief that we individually had and then when we started working together on our teams we started recognizing that it's like whoa what happens when we start working together on this and then yes Jay over the last couple years we've spent a lot of time actually putting the work into this space, for sure.

S1
Speaker 1
06:53
So I guess let me ask the question, and let me make sure that I make it fully aware. Nobody's listening, so it's just you 2 and me sitting here. What's the big plan?

S1
Speaker 1
07:02
I mean do you have ideas to take this outside of your organization? Are we allowed to, am I allowed to ask that question? Because nobody else is listening, I mean just keep that in mind.

S3
Speaker 3
07:12
Honestly like I think me and Taylor the 1 thing we've really talked about is like how do we make it bigger? Because honestly we believe in it so deeply, it's like how do we influence the most amount of people? So we wanna make it as big as we can.

S3
Speaker 3
07:25
I don't know exactly what that looks like right now, but obviously through meeting you and relationships, I think we're going to find out very soon what that means for us.

S2
Speaker 2
07:34
Our plan is to continue telling our story. Over the last year, Mike and I have started collaborating to write the book, People Don't Suck. We're working on that right now.

S2
Speaker 2
07:45
Our goal is to continue to talk to whoever wants to listen to the story and just get it out there.

S1
Speaker 1
07:51
So I have to ask the question because, you know, when we start talking about other aspects of being able to do, when you start looking at things that you've done while you're moonlighting, is your company gonna say anything about this? Because, I mean, it's your development, it's your book.

S2
Speaker 2
08:09
We've actually worked with the company on it to ensure that we have the legalities all covered and ensure that it's done

S1
Speaker 1
08:16
properly. I mean, you're at the very beginning stage, so I have to ask the question. Yeah like I said no one's listening so we're good.

S2
Speaker 2
08:23
Yeah we're very open people not only with people we talk to but also with our company as well So sure that we're getting it right.

S1
Speaker 1
08:31
So when you're looking at doing this book concept, so how long are you thinking, where are you? What's the date? What's the timeline?

S2
Speaker 2
08:39
What do you have? The goal would be inside of this year now to have it completely.

S1
Speaker 1
08:42
Okay, so let's look at this. We're now talking May the 2nd, So the pressure is on. I mean, and I have it in a recording now that took giving dates.

S3
Speaker 3
08:51
I don't know if that's a good thing.

S1
Speaker 1
08:52
I think you were aware that Mike looked directly away the moment that I said the date, like I disappeared the moment that he thought of that. He looked away. You know, I'm still here.

S3
Speaker 3
09:01
Pressure makes diamonds. So really, yeah, it's good.

S1
Speaker 1
09:04
So here's the thing. I mean, as you went through this and you're going through this information of leadership, I would almost imagine to an extent, depending on what people are looking for, the book could lead to a workshop.

S3
Speaker 3
09:18
100%.

S1
Speaker 1
09:19
And I mean, and that's the thought process and depending on how you have it developed. And I think that it's a blessing that you're, I'm not going to name your company because I think that's kind of weird because neither of you mentioned it, so I'll leave it out there. That it's the company that has you, it's a blessing that you're

S2
Speaker 2
09:35
there

S1
Speaker 1
09:35
for them in regards of what you're developing and the people are able to actually to learn from you. But I think that if you're able to do the conference circuits in regards of sharing this information, you're really gonna get further ahead in regards to being able to help people. Because I think that when you put the lens of hop into this, that's what we're here for.

S1
Speaker 1
09:56
It's to build the community of practice to help lead forward. So will this be something that's allowed to do? I mean, in regards to, is it something that you're even interested in, in going into different conferences?

S2
Speaker 2
10:09
I, I believe so. Right now, like we, we went through very rigorous approvals to be able to come to here speak here right now and we haven't seen very much resistance from our organization to stop that right yet so we're gonna continue as much as we can.

S1
Speaker 1
10:28
Well I know the person that you report to and I've known her for some time but I won't mention names. I won't mention names.

S3
Speaker 3
10:35
Yeah. No, I think there is full support from them obviously like we're here right now or here at this 1 so and I think they're pushing big time to have us again here next year.

S2
Speaker 2
10:43
We know what our goals are for next year at this conference.

S1
Speaker 1
10:46
Well, I mean and think about this. You were, you're in 1 of the ballrooms. Let's talk about it.

S1
Speaker 1
10:53
Based on what people are saying is just as you've walked out You know that you're gonna be moved to a different ball Just kind of the way that I look at it, so what are you looking at in regards to processing forward? So you have the book, you have the potential conferences in regards of actually moving forward with. How do you look at it of what other things you're going to be able to do with us?

S3
Speaker 3
11:16
Well, we had a couple of gentlemen from Energy Safety Canada reach out to us. It sounds like they have some shorts that they film. I think we're going to be reaching back to them and hopefully being able to participate in a couple of those.

S3
Speaker 3
11:28
And then honestly, just any opportunities that were afforded through people that we know. We're fortunate enough to have a pretty strong team behind us, I would say in the background that's helping us be available to come to these things. So just look forward to see what they got for us next really.

S1
Speaker 1
11:44
And what are you looking at?

S2
Speaker 2
11:46
I'll be honest with you like...

S1
Speaker 1
11:48
So you weren't being honest before, okay, you're making this... Oh you weren't? Okay.

S2
Speaker 2
11:56
We're at a safety conference right now and Mike and I are operations and our focus is constantly on leadership development so we believe our message can speak to a number of different audiences and eventually it's the branch out into the leadership world as well and the development in that area and combining it with safety because we do believe it's super interesting I believe HOP is on this journey right now of bringing that leadership connection to safety and that's where we're actually wanting to get to see it all come together right at the work front.

S1
Speaker 1
12:34
So as you as you do mention that and you mentioned that you're both in operations you're not we'll say not you know safety department because you're still involved with safety even in the operation side. Is it a shock that you were invited to Energy Safety Canada for this? I didn't say so.

S1
Speaker 1
12:50
And how did that process even occur? Because this is not an easy thing for somebody to say, hey, we want you to present.

S2
Speaker 2
12:57
It was a shock.

S3
Speaker 3
12:58
It was definitely a shock. But as I mentioned, so we've given this presentation before to some different teams and 1 was our she group and they were like, we've been to Energy Safety Canada, we've heard a ton of academics speak and they're like, the layer that's missing is people in operations and we want you there. And the big push really came from them like we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them and I owe all the thanks to them for making it happen and it's just neat because what they did was connect the leadership things that we were doing to human performance and And I really believe every leadership concept, all human performance, it's all intertwined.

S3
Speaker 3
13:35
You can't have 1 without the other. I mean you can talk about sharp end of the stick in human performance, which is servant leadership. It's the same thing, different title.

S1
Speaker 1
13:45
Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because that term servant leadership, if you would have said this a few years ago, people would have not taken that very well. I remember there was a gentleman that I was interacting with and he had a concept that he wanted to talk about servant leadership and people did not like that. They did not like the terminology.

S1
Speaker 1
14:02
I mean, and sometimes I think we're kind of hypersensitive when it comes to terms. So when you notice that you were going into the servant leadership side, when you notice that you were doing all these things that people were more and more interested, did you know that that's what you were that you were going to call it? Or was it something that you said, we can blend it into something else but we're not going to title it servant leadership but now we're at the standpoint where you can.

S2
Speaker 2
14:25
I believe we knew that we were talking about servant leadership from the beginning. We did not fully understand how it aligned with Hop. Sharpening the stick and how we tied that together here right now, no, we did not recognize that at all.

S2
Speaker 2
14:40
It was kind of through our journey that we made those connections. But it's just incredible to see how HOP is actually just a leadership tool. Absolutely.

S3
Speaker 3
14:52
Yeah, if it wasn't for our safety team, we wouldn't have made that connection. We would have just still been talking leadership. But again, the more you can intertwine it, the better it gets, right?

S3
Speaker 3
15:03
It just, you can speak to more people.

S1
Speaker 1
15:06
Okay, well Mike and Taylor, I appreciate you guys coming by. I know that lunch ends in like 13 minutes, I don't want to hold you too long. If people want to find out more information of what you guys have going on, Is there somewhere they can go currently to find out more information?

S3
Speaker 3
15:18
I believe all this is on the Energy Safety Canada website. We do the community practices with Energy Safety Canada. We've done 1.

S3
Speaker 3
15:25
I'm assuming we're gonna do a couple more. Like I said, there should be some shorts coming out. Both me and Taylor have LinkedIn. We always like hearing from people, hearing about your experiences, love questions, helps us learn too, so look us up and yeah, thanks

S1
Speaker 1
15:39
Jay. Okay, well thanks for coming on, I really do appreciate

S2
Speaker 2
15:42
it. Thank you Jay.

S4
Speaker 4
15:46
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. They should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based only on very limited and dated open source information.

S4
Speaker 4
16:05
Assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means, mechanical, mechanical, electronic, recording, or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast, Jay Allen.