In this raw, unfiltered, and unexpectedly moving conversation, Jay Allen sits down with Ben Goodheart—founder of Magpie Human Systems and co-host of Punk Rock Safety—to talk about what happens after you buy into the principles of Human & Organizational Performance. From pediatric heart surgeries to punk rock field trips, Ben brings honesty, humility, and humor to the safety world in a way few can. They explore: What it's like observing literal life-saving work in hospitalsWhy “being human” is a philosophy, not just a polo shirtThe tension between simplicity and certainty in safety leadershipHow AI tools are helping safety pros reclaim time for human connectionThe real story behind Punk Rock Safety (and Neanderthal DNA)Why asking “now what?” might be the most important part of your HOP journeyRecorded live at Energy Safety Canada, this episode is more than a chat—it’s a signal to stay grounded, stay curious, and never believe your own hype.

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