Apolonia Rockwell

Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with Apolonia Rockwell. Apolonia is the founder True Safety Services. During there conversation Apolonia describes how she got into and how she has loved the journey so far.

Hear it today on The Jay Allen Show.

The transcript is not perfect!

[00:00:03] spk_0: this show is brought to you by safety FM. Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the J ALLen show. Hopefully everything is good in grand inside of your neck of the woods. Thank you for all of those who came out last week and hung out at a CFS, Safety Day 2021. Even if you weren't there in person, but you were able to take a listen to what was going on on safety FM dot com. We did broadcast throughout the day and we did have some of those people who were there talking on the radio station was quite fantastic going through the whole thing, of course, talking about what was going on at the first event that I have been to in person in quite some time. So it was exciting going through that whole process and so on. Don't worry, we'll probably end up releasing some of those episodes throughout the next few weeks for you to take a listen to what you might have missed if you did not listen to the radio station or we're not at the event itself. Anyways, let me take away from the conversation that I have going on today because I think you're really going to like it. I get to have a conversation with the owner and the founder of True Safety Services Now, the funny part is, is that a Polonia Rockwell is someone who I got to meet over the last few weeks. It was interesting sitting down, having a conversation with her and going through how she started her career to get to where she's at now. Now I want you to know her story starts off much different than most people and I think you're going to enjoy that aspect of it abalone and I get into all kinds of different things during this conversation. Take a listen now on the G allen show and let me know what you think. Yeah, safety ff changing safety cultures. What one broadcast and one podcast at a time. Well, I'm so excited to have you on. I have to tell you, I've been watching what you've been doing online and I was like, I have to get you on. I, I reached out and I was like, let's see how it goes. You're interviewing a little bit of everyone as of late. Um, so I don't know. I always like to start off with the simplest question, at least I think it's the simplest, but then it's also the most difficult question. Why did you get involved into safety? I mean how did it start? Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's a great question. I um, well I guess I'll go back. So when I was just a pin you a story when I was Real little in the 3rd grade, my dad worked in oil and gas industry and um, so he would be like, my hero, he was the guy that would come in, he worked a ton. So when he was around it was amazing. And so he would have come into my school, I'll never forget and do, um, you know, hosted chaperone school, little vacations, field vacations and he would always come in with the mullet and the cut off t shirt and the boots inside the jeans tucked inside the boots, like real oilfield, just like a super rock star. And he had a really close friend, his best friend in marty. And one day my dad came home and told me that marty died on the job. And at that time, marty's kid was also in the third grade with me and we grew up in Platteville colorado and you know, I didn't understand what it meant. I'd spent so much time with Marty with this kid and I went to school with and I thought, how do, how do you go to work and you don't come home? And that was my first funeral and it was open casket and I'll never forget the emotions in that room to see Amador. His child was also in the third grade, the wife, the kids. And it was not at that time where I was like, I'm going to be in safety. That was not the story, but what I did know and what did land on me as a little girl was my dad can go to work and not come home and not just, he meant so much to me. So that stuck with me. And so I was very curious about his occupation, what is the oil and gas industry? What's construction? And I just was very curious as to why everyone hated safety. And like people, you're telling me all these buddies of yours or losing fingers are losing their lives like how is this? So how is this possible? And so I was very curious and when I graduated high school and I was in college, I was taking my general education to make a long story short and I decided to work for oil and gas company. We had oil and gas construction and a trucking division and I worked with safety there and then simultaneously was going to college online and it got my Bachelor's and occupational Health and Safety and hold on, hold on you, you jumped into this, hold on because I'm slightly confused here. So you, at third grade, you already saying you're interested in safety, but this is not the die if you want to take at the moment. So you go in for general. So at what point do you make the decision? Hey, I want to go ahead and go into safety side because you're already talking that you're, that you're working for the company. I apologize for interrupting, but I just wanna have a better understanding. So when does the mindset go of? Okay, click. This is what I want to do because there's not a lot of people that go out there and say, oh yeah, safety is the thing I want to go into. Absolutely no, you, you put out a really good point. I applied. I was like, I want to work in this industry, I want to work in oil and gas. And that's when I thought my, this first job here and they said, you can do safety. And I said, I'll never forget. My boss was this rough, tough, charismatic like hands like Briggs like this boss was crazy. It was awesome. And I said, well what is safety about? And he was like, figure it the fuck out. Like I'll never forget that. Right? I want you to do run our safety program. We have a gap, we have a, we have a uh, you know, at that time a pretty steep tear eir. And I don't know what that meant though at the time. And so I was like, okay, so I'm going to school for my general. I'm insect that my first role as safety and they had a consultant at that time that was doing spot checks. And so I learned from that consultant what their current safety program looked like, what it was supposed to look like, what their apps were. And then at the end, then two years into this company and when it was time to select a focus in my education, I thought this would be a no brainer to go ahead and get my bachelor's and occupational health and safety because this is everything I'm doing at work and my some of my class scenarios like what would you do if somebody's operating a backhoe and it falls into a trench like I did this to me, this is what this is what we're doing already is really what it boils down. So when this boss tells you to figure it out, ballpark, how old are you at this time? I was 20. So is there an intimidation factor at the moment where he turns around and he's telling you this? I mean it's kind of like you just figure it out. I mean and if you're new into it how does, what kind of pressure are you feeling? I went into my car, I went into my Jetta and it's a shop, you know, it's a shop, there's no pavement, I go out probably in my heels and I go into clicking into the dirt road into my car and I call my mom Maybe I was 19 actually, and I call my mom and I'm like, I'm crying and she's like, you need to buckle up, you need to figure it out and you go back in there and you show him why he hired you and don't make him regret it. I was like, mom, I'm not getting any guidance, there's no mentorship here, this is not a bring opportunity, he yells at me all the time and she's like, I don't care figure it out. So what I've learned from this consultant, it was maybe what How not Tuesday, no wonder you're saying consultant and not giving names. I understand now it makes a lot of sense and you're cringing which people are not gonna be able to see this. I think it's interesting. So, so you go down this path, you do. So you start learning, you get information from the consultant, you decide to go down this path. But as you're doing this, are you enjoying doing the life experience aspects? And then also at the same time learning because there might be stuff as you just referenced that that's occurring, but you haven't even had quote unquote lessons for yet. So how are you enjoying that as it's going through? Yeah, here's what I enjoyed. I like how you frame that up. I enjoyed, I was fascinated with safety. I was obsessed with finding out why do people hate lows safety. My dad, the owner, the welders, the drivers, the Roustabout cruise, There has to be a way. So I was literally obsessed with figuring that out. And I'm like, okay, so let's see what we're doing. And then I realized, okay, well what we're doing is not working. We have somebody that comes in, here's what I know, a consultant comes in. Everybody rather gouge their eyeballs out than being the safety meeting there sleeping. They're texting they'd rather be anywhere else. Somebody comes in who doesn't have any field experience. Somebody who comes in who has a superboy roaring power point that's outdated on the Ocean website. So many people are going to hate you because you're saying I'm not a field show you how it twists this is that did somebody who comes in and it doesn't it's not so much they didn't have field experience. It was that, but it was also that they just didn't know and they didn't care to know because there were there were spewing OSHA regulations and I'm like, people hate the stereotypical safety person who comes in with an ego, who is a know it all, and they pretend to know what the boots on the ground are experiencing and that's not the case. And I was like, that's why there's this big disconnect. What I was obsessed with. How do I gap this disconnect between safety and the field? And I'm like, all right, I'm never going to get the experience, I'm never going to be a trade expert and welding and driving and um in roustabout in construction, and as much time as I spent in the welding shop out in the field, out in all these crazy, remote locations, I'm still not going to get that experience, but here's what I can do. I can learn the stories of the field employees, of the field workers, of the team and I can understand what do they care about most? Oh, safety has never had a conversation in this scenario. Safety never had a conversation with one of these guys to see where, what is their life about? What, you know, what are the experience, what kind of ours, what kind of, what kind of work type, what kind of environment are they experiencing? So that way there's a level of understanding. So that way the message can be framed a little bit different. Instead of preaching, it could be a conversation and I wasn't perfect at it because I did model when I knew which was come up with a compelling power point and do a great presentation and I'll never forget. My boss pulled me aside afterwards safety meeting and it was like, you effing sound like an effing valley girl. He's like, you know what you're gonna do? You're going to record yourself and you're going to see how terrible you are. Screen. You're a really nice guy. What are the guys that I look up to and admire and respect most of the states? Such an incredible human? Um, so it's like you need to engage the team. I was like, well how do I do that? And he was like, listen, like, like listen to them when you're asking them, why don't you wear this certain facial, why don't you wear these glasses in the shop? Listen to what they tell you and then become a problem solver. And I was like, okay, yeah, instead of just doing mock OSHA audits where I'm completely disconnected and I'm writing up an audit and then the teams may be blind sided with my findings. So it doesn't do anything. It doesn't do anyone any good because it's not their idea. The solutions that I came up with, weren't there solutions? I didn't get input. I didn't get input. I didn't engage. And so what I slowly did was I realized all right, my safety means, although I'm never going to have the field experience, but you know who the expert is as they are, they're the expert. So what I can do when we're doing a confined space that say a confined space safety meeting, what I can do is group everybody up her division or we can mix it up the next time and we can, I could give out discussion questions on who here has been through what confined spaces, What is our, how do you run through the process? Or maybe I would put managers in each discussion pods so that there would be a leader there and they would be able to leave the conversation. I would pull the information out of them and it changed my life as a safety professional. Yeah, But how do you figure before, before the boss, the boss man came around and told you this? How did you know? How are you aware that you had to listen and take what we'll call the human approach to interacting with the, with the people out in the field? Because a lot of people don't think that in and I'm not picking on age here, but at a young age, you're really developing something that most people don't obtain until years later. What clicked in your brain that you said this is the way to do this? I just, I'm telling you, J just something dawned on me where I just knew that this game wasn't about who is the smartest person in the room, but the game was that we are all humans and humans have stories and I could spend all the time that I wanted to in the shop, but I wasn't going to become the best welder. It wasn't going to be the best driver, the best construct, whatever it was. And but if I pull those stories out of people and if we to come up, if I have them come up with the solution with my guided expertise of what I'm learning, I didn't learn everything even through school was just really after hours of just being so obsessed with OSHA. And that's the thing too. You were obsessed with OSHA. We found some certificates that you have. Oh my goodness. I was like, what the hell was going on here? It's close to, it's like 20, it's like 20 that you have at least that we could find so funny. I was obsessed. There was this inner path, but there was this crazy passion that I bring to that that I feel in my blood today. And you know honestly, I think that this passion started with like the love for my dad. Like I love him and respected him. Always wanted his time. I always wanted to be something important to him. And I was just, I just didn't understand how there could again be this gap with hating safety and, and you know, how could I thought to myself, if I can convince my dad who at that time was old school safety mindset, old school oilfield. If I could get, he would be like my tester for a safety meeting or something. If I can word it in a way where he approves or I can, you know, I could gauge that he's actually following along, then it's going to work with my guys. So did you ever get, did you ever get worried that because it was your dad and there's blood relationship that it might be slightly jaded or he might go all your my daughter. So I'm appreciating it. Did you or what? He would just tell you regardless. He would tell me. No, you're right. No, he's actually the opposite. He would be, he loves argue. He's very argumentative. He might listen to this. I don't know if this is a good thing. He's a, he's a really funny guy, but he's argumentative. He's stubborn and at that time like nothing was going to change his mind, you know it was. And so I just thought if I could get him to shift the needle to thinking a little bit different than I know it's going to work at work. Well what I always call it is when you're trying to interact with your parents and trying to give them advice. I call it the powdered but syndrome where if they powdered your but they're not going to listen to what you have to say for the most of the time. So it has to be really engaging, at least to be able to convince them. So you did something. They're totally, I was just on a mission to do things different and to figure out a way that this was going to that I can make a say I could develop a safety program where people are going to be bought in and engaged and and lead without me because I realized quick that I can't be the leader of the safety program. I can't, I can drive it and I can guide it and I can enforce it. But I can't be the one that carry this program on a day to day because I can do all the audits in the world. I realized too. I learned that lesson, taught me lessons. I can do all the audits in the world. That doesn't mean anything. It's the second I leave, everyone's like screw that person. I mean but you but you did this for about close to three years and then you decided to do the uh, what we'll call the world of crazy. You decided you decided to jump into consulting, which apparently you had a very bad example about previously. So why all of a sudden once you realize that okay, you can't do the day in and day out, but you want to help multiple people? When do you feel the courage? I mean at what point do you get to where you say, okay true safety services is my dream. This is what I'm going to do. So it actually wasn't, it's a great question. It wasn't a dream and I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't execute after I didn't move forward until I have the courage. What actually happened was the real story was, is a company, a small company out of North Dakota was working out east of where I live, where it's very remote areas. And this gentleman, the owner of this north Dakota company called my boss and said, hey, we have a guy out here who just mingled both of his hands. Um, do you know of anybody or what can I do? Like what am I supposed to do here? We don't even know where the nearest hospital is. And I had this guy in my truck right now and my boss said, yeah, call at bologna. And so guy the owner calls me and he's like, he's calling me frantic. I have a guy in my truck right now. Both his hands are bleeding. None of us know what the severity is. I think he lost both his hands. Where do I go? So I guide him. I meet him at the hospital. We we go through the whole um just that experience alone. I didn't start the initial investigation right then and there. But I'm, you know, I'm starting it and I'm in the waiting room with this gentleman who's not from here. He was getting from North Dakota, this employee and this grown man who doesn't have anybody that he loves or nose near him. And the nurses like, alright, we're about to take your gloves off, but we don't know, we don't know what we're going to see here, right? So I just need you to be prepared for your fingers to be missing. Okay. And this is going to be really painful and to see that the yeah, how do I explain him? He was scared. But I think he more so felt alone. Like I feel out of my element when I'm at a conference in texas than from colorado. I feel different. Like I couldn't imagine how this gentleman was feeling. And long story short with bad, we did the whole investigation and went to rehab with him. Um, did physical therapy, did all that filed, the workers comp, did the whole deal. That boss was like, then the boss of that company was like, hey, I want to hire you. And I was like, no, I am so loyal to my boss and my boss is amazing. And this guy was like, well we need a safety program. Like obviously. And I said, yeah, shenanigans, you need a safety program. And so my boss actually said, if you want a polonia, like I know that there's something in you that like you are meant to serve a lot of different people and not just me and like I believe in you. And he said, if you want to, I'll allow you to consult on the side. If you find me a safety, a full time safety person to replace you. You know, you're going to hire this person, You're going to interview this person and I'm always going to have you as my consultant when you start your business after ammonia, you're always going to serve as my business. And I was like, all right. So he just gave me okay. The police and the, he knew that in those three years we turned their program around, we turned their culture around. No, it was not perfect. Um, but Deng did. We make strides in a huge impact in those people's lives at that company. And I still have relationships with a lot of the team members at that initial company, but I was managing both companies and then I was just deciding to train every weekend, but it's safe land every saturday and sunday at an old high school that was have, it was just a vacant building kind of that. I rented out. It wasn't that bacon, but it's a kind of a shady building and I rent out. My friends are partying and having a great time on the weekends. Uh, people are asking, what's wrong with you? You're wasting the you. And I'm like, I'm training training safety classes on the weekends. My classes were uh, you know, there are eight out, there were eight hour classes, so I just did it on the side and then it just got, I just gained so many customers that I finally All right, I'm ready to hire my first employee, my first team member. So then, I mean, I consulted for that initial company for a really long time. Um I do work for them a little bit now and then, but I'm just, I'm still a great, great, great friends with the owner is life. So yeah, so I'm going to have to jump back a little bit because you left us on a very interesting part. I know you said the gentleman went to rehab, what happened when the gloves came off? He was people saying he was missing. Not a complete Amputation, but he lost the majority of three fingers. And um, it was a wild story that morning. He fist fought another team member in the morning of, I'm writing this investigation and I was like, okay, so you thought journey, okay, well, um, why did that happen? And he was like, well, he um, he took my mountain dew, like out of my greater, and I'm like, whatever mountain did you say that was mountain dew, okay from, he took your mountain dew from the fridge and then you guys fuck off with your fists, Okay, okay, All right, well, we have a lot of work to do. What have I gotten myself into. It was crazy, but you know what, I think about it, I was driving to these remote locations in the middle of nowhere with no service in this little Jetta of mine and the, it was so dangerous. I think about it, I wouldn't go out there when it's like winter. And it was weird because in the moment, like I didn't, I was fearful, not fearful of what am I doing? That kind of like you mentioned before is like how did you have the courage to God and serve other companies? And I, there was always, there was always yeah reservations just that I had about myself, but when I would get in front of people and when I realized this wasn't the abalone a shell, it never was when I realized that it was always about them. And how do I improve their lives? How do I improve this company's culture? How do I, how do I pull that out of them? Is when the pressure came off I was so afraid starting my career and safety because I'm like, I don't know all the answers you're never are. That's the great part about it. Yeah, I was like, and then it just, everything shifted in my life when I realized it was all about them. You had nothing to do with me. So that, I mean, that's, that's a great story. It's a great journey to where you're at now. So I mean now I'd imagine your gangbusters going all over the place doing the things that you're doing. So I see that you're doing some stuff and consulting. But then all of a sudden you go in, let's say october of 18, give or take, You get the, you get the courage, you get the knock and all of a sudden the a Polonia Rockwell show comes about for the first time. But what, what he, what are you visiting at the time where you say, hey, I have a message that needs to be shared. How do you come up with this? I think I'm, what, what I initially was going through my mind was I'm very in tuned or at least I try to be with social media and marketing. And what is the best strategy to get um, to get a message across? And how do you start building a community? What does that even mean? What does it look like? And what I realized even before podcasting is even just getting the business started, I realized people aren't doing in my town, in my area, people weren't you? Safety companies weren't utilizing social media. So before the podcast I realized there are no social media posts. There is no social media footprint from the other safety consultants or the safety companies around me. So I remember being like, I'm going to be the first, I'm going to get my message out there. I'm going to let them know that we do training, but we do it different and we do consulting but we do it different. And so then when podcasting came along and I just started listening to my own personal development podcast, I thought we need to jump on this now because if I can pull stories like going back, I guess the story theme is if I can pull out messages, maybe they're not safety messages, maybe they're just from other business owners or from other leaders within organizations. Because what I realized is that not only is it about it is all about people talk so much about regulations, but I've been got fascinated with culture because I realized there isn't a safety culture. I don't even know what that means. I talk about safety culture, but what I really mean and what I really understood is it just is culture, A company has a culture. What is that culture? Why is that culture the way it is and depending on what that culture is like is going to be what the safety program is like. It all is together is what my realization was. And so once I realized that then I was like I'm gonna I'm going to interview people who have helped shift their companies and helped take their organizations to the next level when it came to culture. That's who I want to talk. So you start getting into it. You do some podcasts. It goes from October give or take of 18. But then come about June of 19. There's a pause. Yes. What's going on during the time? Are you having hesitations about it? What are you thinking? Because it's an extended break before you come back around. You almost got we're talking November of 20 or yeah. You do. You like all this research we did on you. I love it paints such a great picture. So what happened was I got pregnant? Well that that's a life changing event. We can understand why you would get away from the, from the mic for a little bit. Yeah. You know, I think maybe maybe so, maybe not. Maybe the girls can relate to this, but for the longest time, like starting the podcast, I just was so you know, vulnerable and honest. I was so consumed with what I looked like on film because we're doing the podcast, but we were filming it, just put on Youtube and I was just like, I hate the way I looked like not only do, I hate the way I sound, but I hate the way I look, I hate like my hair look bad and then then I got pregnant and I'm like, oh my goodness, this is a life changing deal. This is crazy to deal with. You know, all the mamas can relate, like just those, that first pregnancy, you don't really know what to expect, and then I'm running a business and a small team at that time, maybe, Maybe at that time, maybe 12 team members. Um but just kind of oh sorry, you might hear a train, but uh just navigating through life, I would just like to lead a team and to be pregnant and then those initial months of having a baby, and actually right now I'm five months pregnant with my second and um no end in sight with the podcast this time around. So I feel like I kind of know what I'm doing just a little bit more. Well, you're you're you're but you're doing video, you're still doing videos in if you don't take it the wrong way, I think you look great. I mean, my wife was pregnant, she was fine with doing the stuff that she was doing. I think it's such a beautiful aspect when women are pregnant, going through the whole process and just letting themselves be. So I'm glad that you can decided to continue to move forward during your segment pregnancy. Yeah, no, thank you. I think that, yeah, I think that I I realized just exactly what you said is that this is, you know, it's it's just life and, you know, to share this experience with the audience and let people know the real struggles of parenthood and that's motherhood and fatherhood. And there's a lot there, it's not just mama, there's a lot that everyone goes through takes a village and so right now, to this day, I have a year and a half year old and and I do right now uh in october so yeah, sometimes exciting times. So as things are going through your business continued to grow. You're doing the podcasting, are you doing any virtual classes for people or their normal? Are you having anything open for the public? Or is it only mostly for people like companies or how do you normally do your set up if you don't mind me asking? Absolutely. So before Covid, Oh my gosh we could talk all day before Covid mainly everything was in person. But let's see a year before Covid really hit. I knew that we needed to have online OSHA classes. OSHA awareness classes, safety classes. So we launched T. S. U. Which is True Safety University. So I had went and I filmed and produced our initial 12 or 15 OSHA classes. So those were all produced at a studio. And then the goal was to add to that library, which we recently did. We now have around 100 courses. Um, you just say add or kind of recreate almost everything. Oh my God. If you start off with 62 year at 100 year, it was a little work. That was a lot of work. Yeah, it was all worth it and necessary. But we had our our online social class platform. Then we did person in person courses open, hit removed all of our classes obviously, virtually. And I think as you could probably experience, you can probably speak to you as well is that our world shifted on how we do safety. And so that includes just the education world, right? And so we did safe land first aid HBO Actually not first stage it took american red cross a little bit longer to figure out the in person portion. But we did say flan H two S. Um Everything else was virtual. And right now to this day we are doing um or doing both. We're still offering in person classes but we're also doing virtual um depending what the customer needs and depending on the class size, you know, we're still very restricted and we're just, we're just playing it safe right now. So are you, are you willing to travel the country or you limited to the colorado area? How do you go about with your business right now for the non virtual? Of course we have to we have a team member in texas and we're looking at adding a team member in new Mexico and were primarily here out of colorado. So right now we're, we haven't traveled specifically for any classes. Those would have all been virtual. It's really, really cool are safe line classes that we offer on a weekly basis. We're getting people from all over the place all over. And that's been exciting the East Coast all over. So it's been great and we hope to see that we hope to continue to do more virtual into um, expand our audience that way. But we know we have amazing training. You know, our instructors are incredible. We have, we have a twist on our classes and uh, we're very passionate about education and how people leave differently from our classes. So, um, so it's exciting for us to be able to touch lives all over the place. So with you being in this for quite a period of time, what do you think? Still, currently some safety people and some organizations have is the biggest misconception about the world of safety? Yeah, that it's a people game, that this all is a people game and life is a people game. And if we don't care more about the person, then we do the regulations, then that should probably be a should probably self reflect fred there and kind of understand All right. How are we leading? Are we more, are we regulation leading? Are we people leading? Because regulations, OSHA regulations, safety regulations aren't incredibly important. I think both of us agree on that and they're, they're a guiding force, but they're also, uh, the fundamentals, You know, OSHA's regulations are just the basics. And so when you can lead and inspire an impact of culture within an organization of accountability, of being your brother's keeper on looking out for the person next to you and you really genuinely care about the person next to you, get your getting to know them, then that's going to be more of an impact than being the most knowledgeable person in the room for OSHA regulations. I totally, I totally agree with what you said right there. You were so spot on abalone, if people want to know more about you and what you have going on working, they find out more information abalone a rockwell, surprisingly nobody has that user on any, I have to tell you that is such a stage name. You fall into this, this, this whole thing. I have, I have a very dear friend of mine that his name is Sheldon primates and he swears that his name is not made up and I'm like, it's made up. Like when I, so when I read your, when I read your name the first time I was like, that's like a, that has to be like a specialty safety name that you came up with. But if you if you're rocking it as your own steal it and go with polonia before I was married and then I got a colonia Rockwell. So perfect game works perfectly. I like safety presented by. There you go. You go. Any platform instagram linkedin, facebook twitter. All of it is a colonia raffle so that works out very well. Apollonia, I really do appreciate you coming on to the show. Thank you so much. It's awesome to be here. I hope to do the conversation safety FM dot com. The views and opinions expressed

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[00:38:41] spk_1: utilized in the real world as

[00:38:42] spk_0: the only solution

[00:38:43] spk_1: available, as they are based only on very limited in dated open source information, assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be

[00:38:54] spk_0: reproduced,

[00:38:55] spk_1: stored in a retrieval

[00:38:56] spk_0: system or

[00:38:57] spk_1: transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic

[00:39:01] spk_0: recording or otherwise, without

[00:39:03] spk_1: prior written permission of the creator of the podcast,

[00:39:06] spk_0: Jay Allen.